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Old 06-04-2012, 12:22 AM   #921
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I kinda liked a new Kamen Rider series in which the lead character is not a Kamen Rider... Similar to Hibiki, where Asumu is just an ally to Hibiki and not a rider.
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:08 AM   #922
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Originally Posted by Kiryurules View Post
In W, the term "Kamen Rider" carried a certain connotation, which many fans of the franchise now support, namely the fact that it's a term fit for only those who are actual heroes who protect the innocent and all that.

In other words, an evil/neutral Rider is not necessarily an actual "Kamen Rider."
You say that as if W introduced that.

Kamen Rider has been from the beginning the name of a hero, often times tragic, that fight for justice. For most of the 00's decade this was used wrong, but it seems to have been fixed now... mostly.
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:23 AM   #923
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It hasn't really changed much, tho.
Whilst the Showa Riders were Riders that fought in the shadows, never really known to public (which gives a double meaning to 'Masked'), we never had actually EVIL Riders.
We later got some examples, most notably Ouja, I'd say, and 00's movie Riders. But Eternal really put's it right: It's not that they're fighting for human justice, they're fighting for their species justice, most of time. (Given that most of them aren't even human (Includes Orga, Kabuki, Eternal, Saga, and others.). I mean. Okay, Ouja was evil, but, see from dude's point of view: He was probably going to death row anyway, then he gets a chance of a free wish? I'd grab it and go for eternal freedom. Not like it's going to cost me my life, because I'm probably going to lose it.

Kaiza, Gai, and alikes, who were pretty neutral to either if they wanted to defeat the monsters or the humans just for the heck of it, are the closest we get to evil, besides all those small fights to settle differences among Riders.
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:29 AM   #924
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I'm just saying, the name shouldn't be wasted like that anymore.
If someone evil is to use the name Kamen Rider it should be a case of someone who think they're doing the right thing, even though they're not. So yeah, Kiba Yuji or someone like Eternal are fine. Ohja was not fighting for anything, he was fighting for the sake of fighting.

I just hate how the title has been wasted for so long, the culmination was Chinomanako in Decade.
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:54 AM   #925
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Hey, just because the dude Kamen Rode on DiEndriver, doesn't make him a Rider in the leastest. Or else we'd get a thousand more, one episode only Sentai members.

I get your point. But you could relevate Ryuki. One: Because in the end it never happened. Two: V3, I mean, Odin made the Riders to indirectly protect his sister. Justice or not. He invented the system and calls it whatever he wants. In Ryuki's brief and confusing world, THAT's a Rider.
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Old 06-04-2012, 03:58 AM   #926
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaiden View Post
I'm just saying, the name shouldn't be wasted like that anymore.
If someone evil is to use the name Kamen Rider it should be a case of someone who think they're doing the right thing, even though they're not. So yeah, Kiba Yuji or someone like Eternal are fine. Ohja was not fighting for anything, he was fighting for the sake of fighting.

I just hate how the title has been wasted for so long, the culmination was Chinomanako in Decade.
Its never been "wasted" Kamen Rider is a much broader term than just "a (sometimes) tragic hero who fights for justice" thats way too one dimensional. The term has evolved and become redefined. If you wanna get down to brass tacks the only "real" qualifications to be a Kamen Rider is to be a human (i realize there are exceptions to this such as hajime but just go with it) who transforms and probably has a motorcycle. Every series tweaks the definition of what a Kamen Rider "is" as well as what a Kamen Rider "can be."

This has allowed the concept to grow and become more than just the exact same kinda character/set-up/premise every time. Also why the hell is anyone arguing that Ouja/Ohja isn't a rider, obviously he's a rider.

The way i see it, the belts, suits, weapons, etc are all The powers of a Kamen Rider, they are neither for good or for evil upon their creation. They are just "Kamen Rider powers" they have the potential to be used for good or for evil, its just a matter of who gets their hands on the power, for instance if Shinji/Ryuki had gotten the Ouja deck instead you would be making the exact same argument about "that bastard Ryuki who just fought for the sake of fighting". it was the guy inside who was making the choice to be evil, but he was still using the powers of a Kamen Rider to do so. Chinomanako isn't a kamen rider, thats a given.

I get what you're trying to say, but really the title of Kamen Rider isn't that simple anymore, and personally i'd HATE to see it go back to being that black and white again. its so limiting not to mention it doesn't make a lick of sense, plus Villian riders can be a really fun sometimes.
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Old 06-04-2012, 12:31 PM   #927
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...But, but I enjoy evil Riders.
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:07 PM   #928
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It would be interesting if they took the black & white idea of a Rider in a newer series & then added an evil character who was somewhat mentally ill & fancied himself a Kamen Rider, but had no idea what that meant/ entailed & only used it for selfish reasons.
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:11 PM   #929
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Quote:
I get what you're trying to say, but really the title of Kamen Rider isn't that simple anymore, and personally i'd HATE to see it go back to being that black and white again. its so limiting not to mention it doesn't make a lick of sense, plus Villian riders can be a really fun sometimes.
Hasn't that already happened though to a large extent? We only get evil Riders in movies nowadays, and even there they're usually either directly stated not be Kamen Riders by the script (Core) or have some kind of excuse (like Poseidon being mind controlled). Kamen Rider in the current shows seems to mostly mean hero again and people are surprised when someone evil calls themsevels a Kamen Rider, while in Ryuuki it was just an empty name.
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:18 PM   #930
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaiden View Post
It's okay, as long as they're not all called Kamen Riders.
That's true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaZerwolfX View Post
If you wanna get down to brass tacks the only "real" qualifications to be a Kamen Rider is to be a human
Almost none of the Showa riders were "human", though; they were mostly cyborgs.

Quote:
Also why the hell is anyone arguing that Ouja/Ohja isn't a rider, obviously he's a rider.
Just because Toei says so; he doesn't fit the *Tomoko Nozama definition of what a Rider is*.
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Quote:
for instance if Shinji/Ryuki had gotten the Ouja deck instead you would be making the exact same argument about "that bastard Ryuki who just fought for the sake of fighting".
Rebuttal: In the Ryuki TV Special, there's an ending where Shinji uses the Knight deck and he's still the same person.

The deck itself is meaningless; if say a hobo had picked up the Ouja deck and Asakura had picked up say, the Femme deck; we'd have a psychopathic swan Rider and a homeless probably fun-to-watch snake man.
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