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  1. #21
    Member kuroihikari's Avatar
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    As we all know, shows about The Gay Agenda(TM) are never gonna be successful.

    That's why Modern Family, The Big Bang Theory, How I Met Your Mother, etc. have had really really really bad ratings all these years.

  2. #22
    Member Dr Kain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdog View Post
    I'm talking about if they air it on something that isn't populated by stoners and nerds, like the current block that is optioning for the airing rights is.

    If they were to air it like on Cartoon Network proper to compete with Korra, it would have to deal with these issues if it became successful.Is it not a big deal as it was? No, but even PB and Marceline were implied until the recent two seasons than explicit as in Sailor Moon. If they aim for a TV-PG rating like Korra, they could certainly get away with these themes more than the original ratings for the dubs in question would allow.

    This is my question. If the series' dub is aiming for the nerd niche that grew up with the dubs, wouldn't it make sense to appeal to that niche so they will tune in and buy the videos?

    If not, then putting the show on a block watched by a closed niche is horrible marketing logic.
    Uh... what?

    If FUnimation were to dub it, they would dub it properly with a script that is close to the original dialog as possible, the voices that match the characters, etc. If it airs on TV, it would be on Adult Swim/Toonami anyway.

  3. #23
    Member Bigdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Kain View Post
    Uh... what?

    If FUnimation were to dub it, they would dub it properly with a script that is close to the original dialog as possible, the voices that match the characters, etc. If it airs on TV, it would be on Adult Swim/Toonami anyway.
    The voices of the Japanese original are horrid much like Dragon Ball's, so give me a reason why I'd want voices that sound like squeaky mice and make me want to mute it and watch the show on closed captions.

    I love how you're arguing in circles and avoiding my question. Also, since you keep on arguing like it would be on Toonami anyways, it makes more sense to appeal to the niche fan base than to the average consumer.

    Thanks for proving my point.

  4. #24
    Member Dr Kain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdog View Post
    The voices of the Japanese original are horrid much like Dragon Ball's, so give me a reason why I'd want voices that sound like squeaky mice and make me want to mute it and watch the show on closed captions.

    I love how you're arguing in circles and avoiding my question. Also, since you keep on arguing like it would be on Toonami anyways, it makes more sense to appeal to the niche fan base than to the average consumer.

    Thanks for proving my point.
    What question are you asking?

    And what does a niche fan base have anything to do with anything?

    Have you taken your meds today?

  5. #25
    Member Bigdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Kain View Post
    What question are you asking?

    And what does a niche fan base have anything to do with anything?

    Have you taken your meds today?
    Trying to get away from the subject, aren't you?

    No point in discussing with someone who resorts to downright defamation and harassment.

  6. #26
    Lurker Galaxian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Kain View Post
    That just doesn't make sense to me. Why the hell is the show airing every other week? And why is it only 26 episodes when it needs to be around 50 to cover the entire manga?
    First off, we don't know how much Crystal is going to cover. It wouldn't be the first time that an anime adaptation is planed to only cover a part of the original manga instead of the whole thing.

    As for the two-per-month airing date, it could be a safe-cost decision depending on the quality of the animation. But I think that the likeliest reason is to ensure the show runs for a whole year.

  7. #27
    Member SamuraiEchidna's Avatar
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    I think I'm gonna agree with Dr Kain on this one. I think things have changed since the 90's. We can handle a more uncut version of Sailor Moon on TV. If it were on Cartoon Network, they'd probably put it on the Adult Swim/Toonami block so they cut out as little as possible, where you will get a proper warning that some of the shows might not be suitable for younger audiences. Even if they had to re-record some lines for TV sake, they would still keep it as close to uncut as possible.

    Keep in mind, I am talking about Crystal. If Funimation decided to release an uncut version of the original anime, it'll probably just be a straight to video and/or legal stream release.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdog View Post
    Nostalgia isn't everything? Let's tell that to Hollywood where yearly, they make films that bank on nostalgia and collectively make billions from it.

    ~Snip~

    It is hardly about who is the "best", when largely, the only people who will be watching this show [unless it isn't graphic and can be aired around 8 PM like Korra] will be the audience that watched the show in the first place as children. Sailor Moon should be marketed in North America when people who aren't nerds or a limited audience can watch the show. I.e. kids. The way Korra is handled on Nick should be the same way that Sailor Moon should be handled in the United States. That show is dark and had intense themes and footage, but it can be seen in the mornings and at night on 8. Any controversy wouldn't be hard to gloss over anyways with cuts for the morning/day version versus the uncut version.
    Bigdog, buddy, I am sensing some aggression here. Do you need a Snickers?

    Not sure why you are talking about Hollywood and their movie adaption agenda. That's not at all what I was getting at, and honestly Hollywood tends to miss the point entirely when they make movies about our favorite nostalgic properties, so it feels like kind of a moot point comparing that to a new dub of the original Sailor Moon series. And I wouldn't say Dragon Ball has been reusing the same voice actors over and over either. That franchise was a wreck that went through a number of voice actors and companies before Toei finally settled on Funimation, and even then Funimation had to convince Toei that everyone wanted a true, uncut version of Dragonball.

    All I was trying to get at is that what matters most is honoring the original vision that Naoko Takeuchi and Toei, creator and owners of Sailor Moon, had. I don't know how anyone can argue against that without sound like a self-entitled jerk, and anime has more than enough "fans" like that. Anything else is superfluous or can be addressed later. However, I think I do understand one thing you are trying to say...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdog View Post
    The voices of the Japanese original are horrid much like Dragon Ball's, so give me a reason why I'd want voices that sound like squeaky mice and make me want to mute it and watch the show on closed captions.

    I love how you're arguing in circles and avoiding my question. Also, since you keep on arguing like it would be on Toonami anyways, it makes more sense to appeal to the niche fan base than to the average consumer.
    I honestly don't know which cast of voices, if any at all, would make you happy, especially if you've all ready made up your mind to hate a certain cast without giving it a try. But I do understand your point about the scheduling thing. You'd prefer to air the anime in an afternoon or evening block rather than an adults-only late night block. You'd rather it reach as many possible people who are new to anime and to Sailor Moon as possible, am I right?

    Well, I get it, but I just disagree. If it's on TV, people are going to see it, regardless of the block. And let's face it, despite the warning and everything, there are still going to be children and all kinds of people who watch Adult Swim and Toonami. A new take on Sailor Moon will attract more that just the nerds who knew about it before hand or any niche audience. Everything is everybody's first, whether it be a rerun of an old show, the Nth series of a popular franchise, or the first episode of something (Toonami gave me my first look at Black Lagoon and SAO, among other things!). All you need is a proper amount of advertising and hype. Make it trendy, and the viewers will flock! And Toonami has been doing a very good job of giving their titles some advertisement and hype. I'm not arguing against the exposure to a wider audience, I just think we are in an age where fewer people/companies are trying to heavily cut or edit anime so it's a shell of it's former self family friendly, and I think this should be exploited as much as possible.

    If anything, seeing Crystal on Toonami would probably increase their ratings. The original series was played on Toonami back in the old days, so this would be more like a return of the classic Toonami that people loved so much. Top it off with a more recent Gundam anime or that DBZ: Battle of Gods movie, and you've got instant win in your hands. Viewers would come FLOODING in!

  8. #28
    Member Bigdog's Avatar
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    [quote=SamuraiEchidna;1718210]I think I'm gonna agree with Dr Kain on this one. I think things have changed since the 90's. We can handle a more uncut version of Sailor Moon on TV. If it were on Cartoon Network, they'd probably put it on the Adult Swim/Toonami block so they cut out as little as possible, where you will get a proper warning that some of the shows might not be suitable for younger audiences. Even if they had to re-record some lines for TV sake, they would still keep it as close to uncut as possible.

    Keep in mind, I am talking about Crystal. If Funimation decided to release an uncut version of the original anime, it'll probably just be a straight to video and/or legal stream release.



    Bigdog, buddy, I am sensing some aggression here. Do you need a Snickers?
    Sure. Grabbed one right now so to speak.

    Not sure why you are talking about Hollywood and their movie adaption agenda. That's not at all what I was getting at, and honestly Hollywood tends to miss the point entirely when they make movies about our favorite nostalgic properties, so it feels like kind of a moot point comparing that to a new dub of the original Sailor Moon series. And I wouldn't say Dragon Ball has been reusing the same voice actors over and over either. That franchise was a wreck that went through a number of voice actors and companies before Toei finally settled on Funimation, and even then Funimation had to convince Toei that everyone wanted a true, uncut version of Dragonball.
    True, that was a huge stretch, but I just wanted to point out that nostalgia sells.

    But I heavily agree on Dragon Ball, though I disagree on the first dub. The original Harmony Gold dubs weren't really seen by many people and that was the end of seeing the first half of the series for some time. And they lost interest/rights since they only dubbed up to the 13th episode. I know that FuNimation dubbed DBZ first while Ocean did the other version [discounting the English versions outside North America.] , but FuNi did it under Saban right?

    All I was trying to get at is that what matters most is honoring the original vision that Naoko Takeuchi and Toei, creator and owners of Sailor Moon, had. I don't know how anyone can argue against that without sound like a self-entitled jerk, and anime has more than enough "fans" like that. Anything else is superfluous or can be addressed later. However, I think I do understand one thing you are trying to say...
    I love the original manga and read up to the 2nd volume of the newer releases [I'm glad I never had the original translations as a hand me down which I asked from my older sister] ,and I would love to see the vision come on screen. The reason why I'm arguing for a reunion of the cast is mostly from a marketing perspective to attract the audience that loved the show as kids and are Sailor Moon fans if not anime fans.

    If the newer dub of the original series/Crystal actually surpasses the original show, I will be surprised. But then again, I really didn't like the voices of the FuNimation dub until I got back into the franchise a year ago. By then, I pretty much forgot the 4Kids voices and the newer ones fit the Japanese versions like a silver glove. Pokemon is different, as I haven't watched an episode of that since the Sinnoh series was on. Its one of those cases where the comics [whether The Ono manga adaptation of the regional cartoon or Pokemon Special] are multiple times better than the anime itself.


    I honestly don't know which cast of voices, if any at all, would make you happy, especially if you've all ready made up your mind to hate a certain cast without giving it a try. But I do understand your point about the scheduling thing. You'd prefer to air the anime in an afternoon or evening block rather than an adults-only late night block. You'd rather it reach as many possible people who are new to anime and to Sailor Moon as possible, am I right?
    I haven't decided to hate it, but let's be honest. These voice actors better be far better than the ones in the past if the older viewers are going to actually take the change.

    Mine would be, if I had the pick:

    Tara Strong-Sailor Moon/her brother.
    Luci Christian- Venus or Mercury
    Niki Yang -Mercury
    Jessica DiCicco-Mars or Jupiter
    Hynden Walsh- Jupiter
    JG Quintel or Steve Blum :Tuxedo Kamen. He just has that voice which would capture the age gap.
    Luna?
    Steve Blum: Artemis.

    These are the voices that I would possibly like to see for the Crystal dub and the uncut version.



    The thing about Toonami is that I would love for it to become an action block that can be tiered to different audiences. Like for instance, Have DBZ Kai/censored Crystal [blood content] on the earlier block and then the original Z/uncut Crystal on the later block.

    Overall, the programming would be different. Whereas the latter one would have more of seinen or more mature Shonen/Shojo presence, the earlier one should have the usuals like Pokémon XY, Bey-Whatever, with new ones like Gundam Age/Build Fighters , DBZ Kai ,and a less bloody Crystal.

    If I were to make a block it would be:

    5BZ Kai
    5.5:Sailor Moon Crystal Kai: less blood if any. For some reason it would be cool if they aired the original dubs of Sailor Moon instead in this block for younger viewers? Dunno on that.
    6:Bey Series
    6.5:placeholder for show like Adventure Time or Nisekoi [if Nisekoi isn't too violent?]
    7okemon XY
    7.5: Gundam Age/Build Fighters: these series don't seem as dark as other entries, so it should be good. Is 00 dark?

    Later block:

    11: Dragon Ball Z Uncut
    11.5 Sailor Moon Crystal Uncut
    12: Space Dandy
    12.5 Nisekoi/Transformers?/Attack on Titan- This show would be interesting because I watch it on Daisuki. Manga and anime aren't violent really. That or Transformers like Beast Wars?
    1:One Piece
    1.5:?
    2 on? Usual how it is.

    Basically just maximize the use of their current licenses like Pokemon for younger viewers and save the racier /more violent shows for at night.

    I'd preferably add a dub of some toku on there or even a Retro segment once in a while with Ultraman, Astro Boy, Johnny Sokko, Speed Racer and Gatchaman in the same block?

    Just throwing ideas around.




    Well, I get it, but I just disagree. If it's on TV, people are going to see it, regardless of the block. And let's face it, despite the warning and everything, there are still going to be children and all kinds of people who watch Adult Swim and Toonami.
    True. I watched Adult Swim after the night Toonami, but I bet its not that much of a crossover as I would think.

    A new take on Sailor Moon will attract more that just the nerds who knew about it before hand or any niche audience. Everything is everybody's first, whether it be a rerun of an old show, the Nth series of a popular franchise, or the first episode of something (Toonami gave me my first look at Black Lagoon and SAO, among other things!).
    I agree with you on this fact. Introduced to SAO and to Black Lagoon, and previous Toonami introduced me to Satoshi Kon and Watanabe's works aka Paranoia Agent, Cowboy Bebop and Samurai Champloo. The first series was completely strange to watch and Champloo was and still is among the top ten favorites that wrestled the top place from Digimon Tamers of all series. And that was Junior High where I also have a Champloo branded backpack I used from seventh to early high school.

    I would probably honestly say that if I didn't watch the After Hours block, I would not have been introduced to G Gundam, or Ghost in the Shell SAC if not the others. My first real Miyazaki exposure was during the Late Hours block when the entire later portion of the block would have movies from Stan Lee, Hellboy and the month of Miyazaki.

    All you need is a proper amount of advertising and hype. Make it trendy, and the viewers will flock! And Toonami has been doing a very good job of giving their titles some advertisement and hype.
    That is true to an extent. Most if not many college goers are anime fans and all of that age group grew up with it.

    I'm not arguing against the exposure to a wider audience, I just think we are in an age where fewer people/companies are trying to heavily cut or edit anime so it's a shell of it's former self family friendly, and I think this should be exploited as much as possible.
    That is why I'm crossing my fingers for some voices to return in some fashion, so they can get a better opportunity with improved equipment, accurate scripts and that wazoo. Or at least a cast that goes above the original. In my opinion, I never liked the voices of the cats, but I loved the voices of Pegasus, Rini, Mars, Jupiter and the Outer Senshi. Save for those, they could be honestly replaced. 3 of the Senshi could be replaced because their voices are forgettable.

    In speaking of the Outer Senshi, I could never place it, but I always loved them over the main cast alongside Pluto, Evil Rini and Pegasus. Now I know.


    If anything, seeing Crystal on Toonami would probably increase their ratings. The original series was played on Toonami back in the old days, so this would be more like a return of the classic Toonami that people loved so much. Top it off with a more recent Gundam anime or that DBZ: Battle of Gods movie, and you've got instant win in your hands. Viewers would come FLOODING in!
    The difference with Toonami of when we were in high school/grade school [The latter for me] and the one today is that the block is at 11:30 and starts then. If they were to create another block on Saturdays to feature shows much more in the age range of CN's target audience [Like Pokemon, Bey-Whatever and some other Asian or action oriented shows], it would increase the presence it had other than at late night.

  9. #29
    Member SamuraiEchidna's Avatar
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    You know, Bigdog, I think we are finally seeing eye to eye. I just read your entire post (it's only fair since you read all of mine), and I agree with just about everything you said. Especially the part about Tara Strong as Sailor Moon!

    Hmm... If they were to make a more G/PG version of Crystal and air it at a more accessible time, maybe they could air that on a different network? Could work. DBZ Kai was aired on Nicktoons, and that seemed to work out just fine. Granted, the edits were not as liberal as what we've seen on Cartoon Network or any version of Toonami, but it was still well balanced. Just enough to be family friendly, but gave the impression that the home video releases were more uncut and uncensored.

    Thing is, with airing rights and all that business, you can't have it both ways. If Cartoon Network gets their hands on it, they will want to find a way to put it on Toonami/Adult Swim. They will want to make as fewer edits for TV as possible. They won't want to air it at any other time than at night, unlike other networks.

    At this point, shows like Pokemon and such... They are still family friendly because they either got a rotten deal on who bought the rights to the show, or the creators wanted it to be family friendly. Pokemon is the latter. Nintendo, Satoshi, and the rest had a very clear vision of what they wanted to do for Pokemon globally. They've become bottom of the barrel animes that no one cares about. And while it would be nice to make sure Sailor Moon is seen by the largest audience as possible, I'd hate to see audiences lump it in with animes like that. Sailor Moon is not a soulless anime/manga made to push toys, games, or whatever else.

  10. #30
    Member Dr Kain's Avatar
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    lol about DB Kai airing on Nicktoons just fine.

    Did you forget about BLUE POPO?!

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