Kamen Rider W Returns -2 Movies confirmed!

[Vitor]

The Decade ending in Movie Wars 2010 is incoherent and both TV endings are laughable.

I never really saw the alternate take Toei did to the series to make it fit with the conclusion movie

Was it much different?

[ClimaxHeroDen-O]

I liked Decade, both for the series and for the movies. I found that it did generally make sense and was pleasant and enjoyable. Though I don't much care whether or not we get more of him, but I still did like Decade

[Wing Saber]

I never really saw the alternate take Toei did to the series to make it fit with the conclusion movie

Was it much different?

It was a little bit better, since it used Natsumi's dream. Despite it being an edit job.

[Aoi Kurenai]

I never really saw the alternate take Toei did to the series to make it fit with the conclusion movie

Was it much different?
The final battle with Tsukasa against the other Kamen Riders basically loops into Natsumi's dream and the series ends the way it started.

I was expecting something else out of Decade because Movie Wars 2010 was so open ended, but I'm guessing it's not going to happen. I got the feeling that Toei tried to leave it open ended to make have the chance for more spin offs but dropped that when Double turned out to be genuinely more popular.

[Vitor]

I got the feeling that Toei tried to leave it open ended to make have the chance for more spin offs but dropped that when Double turned out to be genuinely more popular.

I'm sure the backlash against Decade probably didn't help it's chances all that much either

[NeonZ]

I was expecting something else out of Decade because Movie Wars 2010 was so open ended, but I'm guessing it's not going to happen. I got the feeling that Toei tried to leave it open ended to make have the chance for more spin offs but dropped that when Double turned out to be genuinely more popular.

Double's popularity was big, but not big enough to overshadow Decade based on the numbers we've gotten. Besides, I don't think Double's two DVD specials are replacing any Decade products. They wouldn't release a bunch of movies featuring crossovers right alongside the big 40 years anniversary movie.

Somehow, it was Den-O who replaced Decade (or just stayed where he was before), considering the Chou Trilogy earlier this year, which even featured a character from Decade, and the anniversary movie now.

At this point, I think there were just never plans for anything further headlining Decade. Decade's movies performed significantly better than any Den-O movie, yet Den-O still was the one who continued as the focus of the movies not based on the current tv Riders.

Even Double's success got it these two extra DVD specials... Decade's success.. resulted in nothing, aside from Diend's participation in a Den-O production. It'd have gotten just as much content, aside from maybe that Diend participation, even if it had a middling Kabuto-like or Kiva-like commercial performance.

[Wing Saber]

I'm sure the backlash against Decade probably didn't help it's chances all that much either

Mostly because an ethics commity was pissed at the trailer that aired after the original ending. Despite that Decade was well received by the Japanese fans. Though W's was better.

But to say that W can replace Den-O is very premature. Especially since Den-O has a head start. If Toei is going to do that, it's going to be a very slow process.

[Lynxara]

Even Double's success got it these two extra DVD specials... Decade's success.. resulted in nothing, aside from Diend's participation in a Den-O production.

This honestly makes me think that Double has probably outperformed Decade on some metric that we just don't have numbers for yet. I have no idea what that metric could be-- toy sales? CD sales? Licensing?

Otherwise it just makes no sense at all that we haven't seen Tsukasa since Movie Wars 2010 but Double is getting spinoffs with enough budget to bring back the entire original cast and crew.

[Vitor]

I have no idea what that metric could be-- toy sales?

Probably toy sales

I guessing that was mostly due in part to all the gadgets the series had

[KouAidou]

Maybe the Decade movies were considered a "disappointment" despite making lots of money? Like if they only performed basically on par, regardless of all the crossover elements and the marketing. Sometimes this happens with American movies; even if they make their budget back they're still considered failures for the studio or the property if they don't do very well.

[Wing Saber]

This honestly makes me think that Double has probably outperformed Decade on some metric that we just don't have numbers for yet. I have no idea what that metric could be-- toy sales? CD sales? Licensing?

I think that numbers came from the ratings itself.

[Ryuutaros]

This honestly makes me think that Double has probably outperformed Decade on some metric that we just don't have numbers for yet. I have no idea what that metric could be-- toy sales? CD sales? Licensing?

Otherwise it just makes no sense at all that we haven't seen Tsukasa since Movie Wars 2010 but Double is getting spinoffs with enough budget to bring back the entire original cast and crew.

Toy sales were huge for Double, they were like getting sold out on very high rates and the DX Double Driver, DX Fang memory and stuff like that were in very high demand.

[Lynxara]

Hmm. I recall reading a translated interview with Decade's producer which mentioned that toys for some of the older properties that appeared in Decade, like Agito, did poorly in the Decade line because kids had no idea who those characters were or why they should care.

Could Decade's merchandise line have been dragged down by having to work with older Rider properties that had become less toyetic over time? (Or perhaps, like Hibiki, had never sold particularly well to begin with.) We know from studying Den-O and Hibiki's performance that Toei cares much more about merchandise sales than it does about ticket sales or TV ratings.

[NeonZ]

Could Decade's merchandise line have been dragged down by having to work with older Rider properties that had become less toyetic over time?

At least, part of Decade's merchandising line continued into Double, rather than the previous standard of rebooting the series specific toylines, so I don't think it performed badly.

Specifically, the FFR toys, which continued with the swappable Double and transformable Accel figures, only with a name change for the collection. And that line continues even now with OOO too.

Maybe the Decade movies were considered a "disappointment" despite making lots of money? Like if they only performed basically on par, regardless of all the crossover elements and the marketing. Sometimes this happens with American movies; even if they make their budget back they're still considered failures for the studio or the property if they don't do very well.

The two movies headlined by Decade are the best performing Rider movies, and All Riders more than doubled the previous year's movie performance. Now, Double's movie performed very well too, but, if they hadn't even started some Decade production by September of this year, I don't think they ever planned to do anything with it, considering how it'd be too close to the anniversary movie headlined by Den-O...

Here are some numbers I've compiled. Source for the older summer movies is some official scan that was posted in the tv nihon forums. The other ones come from various movie box office sites (and I've converted based on the dollar/yen variation of the time when the yen value wasn't available).

Decade - All Riders did ￥~1,900,000,000;

Double&Decade Movie Wars did ￥1,518,091,103 (number for 6 weeks in. It dropped out of the top 10 in the 7th week. I haven't seen a full number for this movie).

Double's summer movie did ￥~1,450,000,000

The remaining summer movies:
Agito/Gao 1,113,000, ~1.3 billion
Ryuki/Hurri 1,256,000 views, ~1.4 billion
Faiz/Aba 1,316,000 views, ~1.5 billion
Deka/Blade 814,000 views, ~1 billion
Magi/Hibiki 956,000, ~1.1 billion
Kabuto/Bouken 845,000, ~1 billion
Den-O/Geki 1,184,000 views, ~1.4 billion
Kiva/Go-On 788,000, ~.9 billion
Decade/Shinken 1,620,000 views, ~1.9 billion

Numbers for the Chou Den-O movies:

Chou Den-O & Decade -> ￥739,274,362

Chou Den-O Episode Red ￥395,070,721 (First two weeks - interrupted by Episode Blue)

Chou Den-O Episode Blue ￥ 341,397,489 (First two weeks - interrupted by Episode Yellow)

Chou Den-O Episode Yellow ￥ 413,728,235 (First three weeks - afterwards, dropped from the top 10)

[Vitor]

some of the older properties that appeared in Decade, like Agito, did poorly in the Decade line because kids had no idea who those characters were or why they should care..

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/thephatomfreak/1291739766414.png

This......baffles me to no fucking end.....

[Skiks]

Er why would it? Kids have no reason to care for agito or ryuki.

[Lynxara]

Specifically, the FFR toys, which continued with the swappable Double and transformable Accel figures, only with a name change for the collection.

I figure once the Decade branding is off the packages, the merchandise sales probably wouldn't be counted toward Decade anymore. So even if the transforming figures continue to be made for Double or OOO, those sales are probably linked to the Double or OOO brands rather than the Decade brand.

[Skiks]

Yeah they pretty much treat that line as OOO or W only, Considering the W Mook I have cataloged the WFC figures and counted them as W part of the W line.

[NeonZ]

I figure once the Decade branding is off the packages, the merchandise sales probably wouldn't be counted toward Decade anymore. So even if the transforming figures continue to be made for Double or OOO, those sales are probably linked to the Double or OOO brands rather than the Decade brand.

Yes, I know. I wasn't implying that those sales would be counted for Decade. However, they basically continued the merchandising line created for Decade, rather than attempting something else for the following series. That strongly suggests that it was successful, otherwise they wouldn't have continued it after its original ending.

In fact, the whole idea of playability of the Rider transformations seems to be very influential to both Double's and OOO's tv series Rider designs. I don't think that a line that initially performed badly would have influenced the following shows.

It's not possible to know whose line performed better without numbers, but I'd guess that both Decade's and Double's did very well, considering how it seemingly went on to influence Double's, and now OOO's Rider designs.

[Vitor]

Regarding what Lynx posted, I'm getting a tad worried that previous Sentai show toys won't be well recieved when they're introduced in the Goukaiger adaption

[Smilodon]

That worries me too Vitor. How could children not grasp the awesome that is Kuuga and Agito. Or Changeman and Timeranger!!!

[FlashNeko]

That worries me too Vitor. How could children not grasp the awesome that is Kuuga and Agito. Or Changeman and Timeranger!!!

Because they're OLD. Only OLD people like OLD things. :|

[KouAidou]

They're... kids. :sweat: Most of them weren't even alive when Agito and Kuuga came out. Were you interested in Citizen Kane when you were ten?

[Wing Saber]

That worries me too Vitor. How could children not grasp the awesome that is Kuuga and Agito. Or Changeman and Timeranger!!!

It's mostly those kids who've been born in 2000. While they're aware of the older Riders & Sentai, they don't have the interest. They care more about what going on now.

[Lynxara]

I don't think that a line that initially performed badly would have influenced the following shows.

Oh, I wouldn't argue the entire line sold poorly. That's self-evidently not true. I am just wondering if perhaps the brand's numbers were dragged down by, say, nobody really wanting the Agito figures or whatever.

I find it genuinely baffling that we haven't seen more of Decade since 2010 and it can't possibly be over ratings or box office. That just makes me wonder if something was up with the merchandising, it's really the only possible culprit.