2011 Super Sentai - Rumor Thread

[Kamen Rider Rage]

If the crossover rumor turns out correct, I guess we're getting a Header-like system. Each old team will have a new mecha which will be a Header-like attachment for the Gokaiger's main robot and they'll team up with the Goukaiger in the final giant battle of each episode using that.

After getting enough "headers" of similar types, the Go-Kaigers probably will be able to summon various at once to form complete alternate forms for their robot. That would make it possible to make the teams actually combine in the giant battles, and it'd also be a selling point for the merchandising.

O,right!forgot the whole merchandising thing:disappoin

[Nnnkingston]

Here's a question for everyone.

If Goukaiger ends up not being an anniversary series would you guys still be satisfied with the pirate theme?

Personally I think a One Piece-eske show holds a lot of potential.

[Lynxara]

It's not a motif Super Sentai has done before, so I'd be interested in seeing it. Generally the only shows that sound unappealing to me at the concept stage are the ones that feel like or sound like retreads.

[Kamen Rider Rage]

Here's a question for everyone.

If Goukaiger ends up not being an anniversary series would you guys still be satisfied with the pirate theme?

Personally I think a One Piece-eske show holds a lot of potential.

Of course,i dont see anything wrong with a pirate theme Sentai.

[Blue Saint]

It's not a motif Super Sentai has done before, so I'd be interested in seeing it. Generally the only shows that sound unappealing to me at the concept stage are the ones that feel like or sound like retreads.
You know this has kinda been bothering me for a while, but how is everyone else defining motif and theme. I apologize if this sounds a bit anal. It is just hard to follow discussions at times since it seems like people are defining terms differently, then again this may just be me. In this context I think for me motif refers to the actual elements that pertain to the narrative and theme has do with the visuals. Like in Goseiger there is a clear angel motif while it doesn't actually present itself much in the theme.

[Lynxara]

Heh, you're using motif and theme the opposite of the way I am, Blue Saint. "Motif" (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/motif) generally refers to a recurring visual, idea, or theme in a work. In Super Sentai, I find the word adequately expresses how a show's title theme relates to the actual show, (i.e., Go Go V's motif is "rescue workers"). It explains things that would otherwise make no sense, like Go Go V's Victory Walker.

As for what the big ideas of the show are I like to use the term "theme" (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/theme), since its most basic definition is "a subject of discourse." Of course, as you can see from the links I've provided, both motif and theme have definitions that directly reference each other! I just find it easier to talk about Super Sentai with one word for how the show looks on the surface ("motif") and another for what it's really about as a narrative ("theme").

I admit I picked which word went with which fairly arbitrarily. My use of "motif" is based on how the term tends to be used in visual arts discussions, to reference recurring elements in a composition that frequently aren't in themselves the overall point of the composition. I find a Super Sentai's motif tends to affect how its suits and gadgets look moreso than really what the show's story will actually be about.

[Forever Knight]

Yea lets hope so it will be better than decade......:coolshades:

>:(

[GoukaiRed]

>:(
:disappoin

[Forever Knight]

:sweat:

[Go-On Black]

I hope they are able to actually summon an old mech or at least have something transform into one. It would be cool to see some of those old suits in use again.

[Sage Shinigami]

I hope they are able to actually summon an old mech or at least have something transform into one. It would be cool to see some of those old suits in use again.

I want to think they'll bring all the old mecha back. More toys to sell, after all, but I do think at a point there's "too many" toys to sell in a single year, and a series like this would push that limit.

[Lynxara]

A lot of the older mecha suits would have to be completely remade, though. Not saying that wouldn't be awesome, but I wonder if it's an expense Toei would embrace without something like a film to help pay for it (as was the case in Decade).

[NeonZ]

The old mecha might appear just like how Decade featured many old Riders who had no toyline presence at all for the Decade line itself.

However, the main toyline element will be some new gimmick (like the header-like small mecha I mentioned before or something else), not just rereleases of old toys.

[Lynxara]

The old mecha might appear just like how Decade featured many old Riders who had no toyline presence at all for the Decade line itself.

Ehh, all of those suits could be reused in the film (briefly) and in the Super Spinoff show (briefly) and that wacky W planetarium short which helped justify the costs.

The suits that clearly had the most effort put into them-- Black, Black RX, and Amazon-- got spotlighted in the show. That's only three out of the dozen-odd suits that Decade clearly had to remake to feature the Showa Riders, though.

Remaking 30 years' worth of Super Sentai mecha suits would be a lot more expensive with a more questionable payoff, I'd think. My gut feeling is that Toei wouldn't want to bother.

[NeonZ]

Remaking 30 years' worth of Super Sentai mecha suits would be a lot more expensive with a more questionable payoff, I'd think. My gut feeling is that Toei wouldn't want to bother.

I hadn't seen your last message while posting previously... Anyway, I don't think Toei would need to remake everything. Didn't they make a large exposition hall for the old suits a few years ago? I'm pretty sure there are still pictures of it flying around.

The ones that aren't available probably just won't be featured, like the Another Agito and Gills suits which were completely absent from Decade.

[Lynxara]

Didn't they make a large exposition hall for the old suits a few years ago? I'm pretty sure there are still pictures of it flying around.

Well, I'm thinking the older shows. The suits for Black RX, Black, and Amazon that appear in Decade are pointedly not exact copies of the original costumes filmed in the Showa era. Those suits had their weaknesses in their heyday and would look like butt in front of a modern HD camera that would film every flaw in the construction with dazzling clarity.

(Remaking with new materials also allowed for some obvious improvements, like Amazon looking more truly organic and Black RX being able to turn his head omg! That in itself was probably a selling point to nostalgics, in all fairness. The updated Black suit filled me with glee.)

I'm thinking every suit constructed before a certain point-- probably around 2000 or so-- would need to be overhauled to be suitable for a modern filming process. The really old ones from the 80s would probably also need to be redesigned as completely as Amazon and Black RX to keep from looking lousy. Some of the early 80s suits don't really move very well and looked sort of bad even in front of standard definition cameras.

Now, seeing updates of some of the fan-favorite old robot designs might be worth it for a film, but otherwise I just don't see any way for Toei to monetize this. I don't think toy reissues would do well since too many Super Sentai robots are just kind of interchangeable and boring. So basically I expect them to do something new instead, perhaps something along the lines of your header theory.

[NeonZ]

I'm thinking every suit constructed before a certain point-- probably around 2000 or so-- would need to be overhauled to be suitable for a modern filming process. The really old ones from the 80s would probably also need to be redesigned as completely as Amazon and Black RX to keep from looking lousy. Some of the early 80s suits don't really move very well and looked sort of bad even in front of standard definition cameras.

There is some definite improvement in suit making, however I don't think it'd be necessary to remake the suits for the guests, if those suits are still available.

Even today's Sentai robot suits are clearly flawed in several aspects, so introducing suits with some limited mobility or lacking joints wouldn't really hurt the show's visual too much. Of course, I'm talking here mostly about the basic or main robots (that still have suits around, of course). Robots like the Great Titan from Flashman or even most of the older 2 robot combiners would never really work without some radical remodeling.

Also, although some main Rider suits were remade for Decade, some other suits seemed to remain untouched. The Rhinoceros monster from the Black episodes seemed to be the same suit from the Rider World special, which was the same suit from Black.

In scenes with many suits, like in All Riders monster group shots, they seemed to use suits worse than the original ones for some minor monsters (like Garai from J, who seemed to have a Gundam color scheme in All Riders. Did they get that from a stage show?). In addition, unlike in Rider, there are basically no mecha suits from the 70s, only 80s and on.

Also, like I've said before, and it seems we agree about this point, this won't be the focus of the show. The old mecha just can't make a viable merchandising line so there will be something else there. I just expect to see brief participations of old mecha, if the crossover aspect really turns out to be correct.

[Lynxara]

There is some definite improvement in suit making, however I don't think it'd be necessary to remake the suits for the guests, if those suits are still available.

I think it would depend on how old the suits were. I don't think the materials available in the pre-Dynaman era could possibly still be in one piece and good-looking so many years later, for example, so you might as well remake those. The weird Battle Fever J plastic-head aesthetic would probably need to be redesigned to look good at all to modern eyes.

I think you underestimate how primitive some of the old robots are compared to what modern audiences are used to seeing. Go back and watch an episode of like Bioman or Flashman, just the robot sequence, with maybe the sound off. The robot suits of that vintage had a tendency to really look like they were made out of cardboard and metallic paint even when they weren't.

Blow that up to modern 1080p resolution and... well, it wouldn't be too inspiring.

Also, although some main Rider suits were remade for Decade, some other suits seemed to remain untouched. The Rhinoceros monster from the Black episodes seemed to be the same suit from the Rider World special, which was the same suit from Black.

That looked like a new suit to me, using a very similar design. The original Rhinoceros Mutant suit was noticeably, well, crappier and less solid-looking. It was made out of something that wrinkled a lot more when the suit actor bent his arms or legs. The Decade version's skin was more plasticy while the original had a definite molded foam texture.

Also, like I've said before, and it seems we agree about this point, this won't be the focus of the show.

Yeah, we do pretty much agree on this, we just take different routes to getting there. I agree that the robots aren't too merchandisable, but I think the costs of refurbishing so many old suits will also probably lead Toei away from trying to do much with the classic robots unless it's one that was really, really popular.

[Digifiend]

They could do Zyuranger's robo, Daizyujin? They already have the moulds, thanks to MMPR reversioned's toyline.

[RiderKing]

I have two questions:

1. When the Goukaigers change into a past Ranger, will they be able to access that Ranger's weapon. Like, lets says Goukai Red changed into Bouken Red. Would he be able to use Bouken Red's Bouken Bo/Bouken Javelin and how exactly would he be able to call for it?

2. If the Goukaigers really use figures to change into past Rangers, how exactly would they be able to store them on their belts?

[garfield15]

We don't know those things.

[Punk]

2. If the Goukaigers really use figures to change into past Rangers, how exactly would they be able to store them on their belts?

They were drug dealers before becoming Pirate Rangers....They know how.

[Sefiros]

I have a feeling that the transformation is too good to be true. And if it is true and if the suits are remade (Saban has all the ranger suits under lock and key; why wouldn't Sentai?) they'll probably CG them all anyway.

[NeonZ]

I think you underestimate how primitive some of the old robots are compared to what modern audiences are used to seeing. Go back and watch an episode of like Bioman or Flashman, just the robot sequence, with maybe the sound off. The robot suits of that vintage had a tendency to really look like they were made out of cardboard and metallic paint even when they weren't.

Blow that up to modern 1080p resolution and... well, it wouldn't be too inspiring.

I recently rewatched Flashman's last few episodes. Although the video quality wasn't very good so it'd help hiding problems with the suits.

Anyway, most of the problem regarding materials could be avoided by keeping the camera at some distance, without close ups if we're talking about the main robots themselves.

That looked like a new suit to me, using a very similar design. The original Rhinoceros Mutant suit was noticeably, well, crappier and less solid-looking. It was made out of something that wrinkled a lot more when the suit actor bent his arms or legs. The Decade version's skin was more plasticy while the original had a definite molded foam texture.

Hm.... You're right about that.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/NeonZ/C-KSkewedKamenRiderWorldavi_snapshot_0203_20100930_2 05733.jpg

Those two are clearly completely different suits... I'm pretty surprised about this.

The Decade suit itself has some big problems - there's one moment, while the monster is in the background, the suit actor just stopped and raised his hand to keep the head in place... and that made it to the final version of the scene. There's also a visible opening in the interior of the arm... so I thought they had just used an old suit falling apart, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Hm... Surprising. It barely appeared in the 2 Black/RX episodes and didn't even appear in the movies. Well, either way, if they really remade it just for those scenes, I guess that remaking some of the robots that really didn't age well is a possibility too (or just taking newer suits from somewhere else, which is what I suspect happened with this monster's suit).

[GoukaiRed]

I recently rewatched Flashman's last few episodes. Although the video quality wasn't very good so it'd help hiding problems with the suits.

Anyway, most of the problem regarding materials could be avoided by keeping the camera at some distance, without close ups if we're talking about the main robots themselves.



Hm.... You're right about that.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/NeonZ/C-KSkewedKamenRiderWorldavi_snapshot_0203_20100930_2 05733.jpg

Those two are clearly completely different suits... I'm pretty surprised about this.

The Decade suit itself has some big problems - there's one moment, while the monster is in the background, the suit actor just stopped and raised his hand to keep the head in place... and that made it to the final version of the scene. There's also a visible opening in the interior of the arm... so I thought that had just used an old suit falling apart, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Hm... Surprising. It barely appeared in the 2 Black/RX episodes and didn't even appear in the movies. Well, either way, if they really remade it just for those scenes, I guess that remaking some of the robots that really didn't age well is a possibility too (or just taking newer suits from somewhere else, which is what I suspect happened with this monster's suit).

It is very funny to see the suit falling apart while nobody notice anything. :laugh: